040: Designing Tabletop Games with Connor Wake

After parting ways with their old friend, our heroes travel until they encounter Connor Wake, a tabletop game wizard from outer space!

Things discussed this episode:

  • The Mind
  • Roads & Boats
  • Scythe
  • Framework
  • Into the Breach
  • Herbacious

[00:00:00] Introduction

[00:00:00] Connor Wake: I am a part game designer that is not my full-time job because that is an impossible thing to do unless you’re very lucky and very good. But outside of my full-time job, I do lots of board game design stuff.

[00:00:12] Connor Wake: I’ve got one published game, got a couple others like in the pipelines.

[00:00:16] Connor Wake: And I usually work on either puzzley, Tetris style games that are very individual figure out your own puzzles or stuff, or I like doing highly interactive bidding games, so two opposite ends of the spectrum. I dunno how that’s what I ended up with, but that’s what I ended up with. 

[00:00:33] Part one

[00:00:33] Michael Schofield: If you rewound the time, like record, scratch it back, where did this start? 

[00:00:38] Connor Wake: My grandmother specifically played Scrabble a lot . That was like the one bar game. Outside of shoots and ladders and all that sort of stuff that I like really like getting to play.

[00:00:48] Connor Wake: Obviously it was me as like a tiny kid versus a bunch of like old people. They crushed me. After that it was video games. I think like Halo two was like one of the first video games that I properly played.

[00:00:59] Connor Wake: Wasn’t just like at a friend’s house and played it for five minutes sort of thing. And then Halo three came out. I think what kind of kicked off the game design stuff was Halo three had that forge mode.

[00:01:08] Connor Wake: I don’t know if you remember that. 

[00:01:10] Connor Wake: Halo three had the campaign thing go shoot the aliens sort of stuff. But then it had the multiplayer where you can go shoot other people and then it had forge mode where you could make little tweaks to the maps.

[00:01:23] Connor Wake: That you were doing the multiplayer games on. So you can add some boxes where there didn’t used to be boxes and sort of stuff. I don’t think they thought too far ahead cuz it was literally just plop a box down and it would just, physics object itself and just fall over and be there. And then people figured out all of the bugs that let you merge those boxes into the ground and merge them into each other.

[00:01:43] Connor Wake: So all of a sudden people could just make all sorts of crazy levels where all of these boxes are fit together in like big arenas . And so people went from just, I’m gonna add a rocket launcher to the map, to full on map design. In the most complicated way possible, you had to emerge two boxes.

[00:02:01] Connor Wake: You had to put a bunch of them next to each other. Set them to spawn 30 seconds into the game or whatever, reload the game, plop some boxes down in between and then the other ones spawn and be in the same spot. Anyway, so that was my I think first dip into game design really.

[00:02:19] Michael Schofield: There’s always been like modding communities, right?

[00:02:21] Michael Schofield: Yeah. But Forge was like produced by Bungee for Players and it had a great deal of support and I think the subsequent Halos had iterations on Forge. They made it much cause it like better, best thing. Yeah. Yeah. So Forge probably spawned a ton of game designers 

[00:02:39] Connor Wake: I’m sure. Yeah I definitely play. Spent more time building levels than like playing them.

[00:02:44] Connor Wake: Which is same thing nowadays. I definitely spend more time designing board games than I do playing them. 

[00:02:49] Tim Broadwater: Which came first? Working with video games or working with paper prototyping, card or table talk games or both, or, 

[00:02:58] Connor Wake: definitely video games.

[00:02:58] Connor Wake: I didn’t really find out about the world of board games until college. That’s a lie. in. Middle school or high school. One of my friends and his dad pulled me aside one weekend and asked my parents if they could play d and d with me. And so I remember setting up my d and d character in, at Denny’s.

[00:03:17] Connor Wake: I didn’t know what was going on. I just got dragged into it. So that was when I did a little bit of thinking about making campaigns and stuff. 

[00:03:24] Tim Broadwater: How much tt RPGs, like tabletop do you play and which ones 

[00:03:28] Connor Wake: so I played fourth edition I think for ages. All like through a big chunk of high school. And then I dropped off cuz that friend group. People went to college or went other places, et cetera. And then I didn’t get back into RPGs for a while, until later in college.

[00:03:46] Connor Wake: When plays in the dark was the big one that I played, actually that was past college. Yeah, blazing the dark’s my favorite I think so far. And 10 candles. 10 candles is really good. 

[00:03:55] Michael Schofield: So the idea of 10 candles and Connor, maybe you can correct me where I’m wrong is that you’re in a dim room. You have tea lights, like 10 candles, literally 10 candles. And there is a very rules light. Our p g mechanic system where you all as a group are collaboratively telling the story the key is that none of you will survive. Like it is about telling a great story. About the end like the lights go off, they’re gone or whatever. And basically certain narratively, important moments you blow one of the tea light candles out and the game’s over when they’re all blown out and it gets really atmospheric.

[00:04:29] Connor Wake: And whenever you want to use a trait to fix a role or do a big thing you’ve written all your traits on note cards.

[00:04:35] Connor Wake: you literally burn them. Oh, you light is on fire. Put it in the middle of the table. That trade is gone. You 

[00:04:42] Tim Broadwater: can’t use it anymore. Oh, cool. 

[00:04:44] Michael Schofield: We should try to get like an advertiser sponsorship . I have I’ll share it with you. I have the pdf, but in terms of like game design, there’s probably a lot you can learn there just around the usability of the rules. Cause it’s easy to pick up, it’s easy to teach, but also if you can get people together and you can do this and you’re cool with setting it up like semi wei the atmosphere that emerges when you really do it right it’s so special. 

[00:05:07] Tim Broadwater: Very cool. How do you get to. Publishing your first game

[00:05:13] Connor Wake: I’m not like formally trained in game design or anything, and I don’t think it’s super necessary or, it might be helpful, but I don’t think I’ve met anyone who’s got a game design degree that is like leagues better or whatever, they might have more academic insight, which is always useful.

[00:05:31] Connor Wake: And interesting. But I think you can self-teach yourself. No, so I was playing a lot of bar games in college. There was like a weekly bar game night at the local game sort of thing. And I, I always like building things like whenever I see something, I always wanna take a crack at doing it myself.

[00:05:48] Connor Wake: So after playing enough board games, I was like I should probably give this a guy. And I tackled it at first by just writing the rule documents of the game ideas that I had.

[00:05:59] Connor Wake: That’s a terrible idea. Or at least for me, they went nowhere. I had these big documents of all the rules, and then it’s just what do you do with this? So that kind of failed. I managed to make one prototype. And it didn’t work and I didn’t know what to do with it.

[00:06:15] Connor Wake: And so I gave up. , but I had been just reading lots of blogs and game design posts so I was just absorbing as much as I could. I hadn’t really kicked in yet, it was in the back of my head. And then I dropped it for a little bit cause it felt like it wasn’t going anywhere and life happened. Like I graduated college and needed to find a job.

[00:06:35] Connor Wake: I kept having ideas and writing them down being like, I wanna do a game. And it just, again, did not go anywhere. And then my partner she was taking a class where she needed to write an essay and I was hanging out at her place and didn’t have anything with me except my phone while she was just writing her essay.

[00:06:53] Connor Wake: And I had a game designer do, and so I spent the entire Couple hours for sitting there jotting down a whole new game idea. And then I was like, okay, that can’t have been a waste of time. I can’t have just done the same thing again and write up a whole rules document, do nothing. So I was very lucky to have some housemates at the time who were.

[00:07:10] Connor Wake: Also very into board games and we’re down to just help me play, test this very broken version. So I think I finally realized like, oh, I should just do the worst version of this game possible. Doesn’t matter. Don’t keep thinking about it. Just slap it on the table, it’ll break. It’s fine. And so that’s what I did.

[00:07:27] Connor Wake: It was like very scrappy. I grabbed some cubes and some paper and that was it. And then from there, having that group that was like, They always say oh, don’t play this with your friends, blah, blah, blah. But I don’t know, as long as your friends are down to like critique, you’re fine.

[00:07:43] Tim Broadwater: They’ll tell you into your face. Exactly. 

[00:07:45] Connor Wake: Yeah, and then it just finally went through iterations and I think as soon as I started doing those, like early iterations, that’s when it all clicked.

[00:07:52] Connor Wake: And I was like, oh, I can make changes and I shouldn’t start with the full thing and I should just keep changing it over and over and over and over and over. And at that time I still wasn’t like, oh, I should publish this. There was a point where my partner was like, do you wanna.

[00:08:08] Connor Wake: Do you wanna publish this? Is this why you’re doing this? And I was like, huh, maybe I hadn’t actually thought about that part. Like I knew it was a thing you could do, but I hadn’t thought of it as like a thing I could do. So that was when I was like, oh, I should enter this into this cardboard competition.

[00:08:26] Connor Wake: Cardboard Edison is a contest or award for finding the best unpublished game.

[00:08:33] Connor Wake: It’s very good as like a. Like a deadline for yourself and getting something done. And also the things you have to submit to it are the same things that you have to essentially submit if you’re gonna submit to a publisher. Or even the same things you’ve gotta think about if you’re going to try and kickstart it, you need a rule book, you need a video you need a game.

[00:08:55] Connor Wake: So I entered that as I should just do this because I need a deadline. And then I somehow ended up winning which is a bit strange. I thought there was gonna be like 30 people entering. And there was like a couple hundred. Oh wow. So that was a good experience and that, and from there that kind of kicked everything off a bit.

[00:09:13] Connor Wake: Basically if you wanna publish a game, a board game, you either have to do it yourself, either fund the money yourself or kickstart the money, or you can sign it with the publisher, which if you wanna sign it with the publisher, you have to have the whole game done, essentially, ready to go. You don’t need art, you don’t need any of that stuff.

[00:09:32] Connor Wake: Clip art’s totally fine. Just get the gist across. And then you pitch it around and see who’s interested. Which is a whole process. There’s lots of quirks. With the game design pitching industry, it’s a lot of it’s a ton of networking. You have to go meet people, you gotta go to conventions, so you gotta have time and money for conventions

[00:09:50] Connor Wake: anyway. Don’t have to get too much of that. I got really lucky with OSAs because some, they actually took pitches online at the time. This was pre pandemic, so most people were taking pitches in person and I was like, I can’t, I don’t really have the time or energy to go to a convention to maybe pitch a game.

[00:10:09] Connor Wake: I’m not spending a thousand dollars on that cuz all the conventions are on the opposite coast from me. But Pan OSAs was taking pictures online. Once they’re like, oh, this looks cool, send us a physical copy, that’s the cost and, $20 to ship a game, it’s fine.

[00:10:23] Connor Wake: That’s how that happened. They just posted on Facebook, so they were looking for games and then I submitted to their form and then a lot of months later, they were like, we wanna sign it. And so they signed it and then that’s cool. They kinda took over from there. 

[00:10:36] Tim Broadwater: That’s 

[00:10:36] Tim Broadwater: very cool. It seems like in very many ways it’s a home run , but I guess a lot of that was dependent on doing it and making it happen, and it sounds like there was maybe. Yeah, see or blocker there, but once you did it just started rolling 

[00:10:50] Connor Wake: and a lot of luck that like things fell into place like luck that the right judges who liked that type of game luck, the it in the Cardboard Edison award luck that I had the time at the time to spend a ton of time fixing up the rule book so that when it got to the award it was good to go and.

[00:11:08] Connor Wake: There’s still all sorts of other stuff, but Yeah. 

[00:11:09] Tim Broadwater: Are there a lot of these kind of awards I guess Is the first question.

[00:11:13] Tim Broadwater: The other question is compared to, you said pre pandemic to now, are there a lot of people who are just taking submissions online, publisher games or is it come back to like you still have to do it in person? 

[00:11:24] Connor Wake: So first question yes.

[00:11:26] Connor Wake: There are a bunch of different awards I think. Cardboard is like the, one of the bigger ones. B g has lots of little fund forum ones. 

[00:11:36] Connor Wake: Once I won that one, I was like I probably don’t need this anymore. Cause I kind see and it’s like an opportunity for people to. Get out there. I don’t need that cuz I, I’ve done that now, so I don’t wanna take up that space.

[00:11:48] Michael Schofield: It’s like a certification, right? So it’s hey, like I have some Bon AFI days and now I don’t have to go chase them anymore, right?

[00:11:56] Michael Schofield: It’s on my LinkedIn, it’s on my, it’s on my website. 

[00:11:59] Connor Wake: You still gotta chase people. There’s too many board game designers. There aren’t really enough publishers for the number of game designers and. And then self-publishing is its own nightmare. So it’s but it is a, it is like a step. It’s like you get your foot in the door, that’s or the door has been opened and you can put your foot in. If you can get, so like 

[00:12:18] Michael Schofield: step one, play test a lot. Step two, win the Cardboard Edison 

[00:12:22] Connor Wake: Award, eh, really the step two, this is, so this is the big thing that I think has leveled me up in quotes the most is In the pandemic when everything hit, and this was, I was about to go to Origins and I was about to do all the networking and that all got thrown out the window.

[00:12:37] Connor Wake: But then a bunch of Discord communities popped up. Yeah. Cause everyone had to and I just joined a bunch of those. And met a ton of people and that is where I really got the ball rolling cuz I, I found some groups less good, others much better. You try out a bunch of different groups and then.

[00:12:56] Connor Wake: Find the one that’s good and you just get into a rhythm of play testing, networking with people, chatting with people, seeing lots of different types of games, seeing how they fix their problems. Just that like community aspect. That was huge. 

[00:13:08] Part two

[00:13:08] Tim Broadwater: One of the things that you helped me out with, one of the things that was an aha moment, like working with you during the mentorship was really.

[00:13:15] Tim Broadwater: A process. You just need a process and it’s really like you can create this Kanban board of columns of statuses and it can work and flex and be whatever. It’s good for you, but then make sure that you can always add to it. If you’re out walking and you’re like, oh crap, I got an idea, you can kinda put it down and then, yeah. . So that was very useful. 

[00:13:35] Michael Schofield: To me, I was like, oh, this is a common sense product development process.

[00:13:40] Michael Schofield: Yeah. That I can imagine that folks trying to get into. I. Game design. Without that back background. Like it might actually be like a mind blowing thing of just how simple and lofi the process can be. 

[00:13:55] Connor Wake: Yeah, and I think that was the big aha moment for me. So I read this book that another game designer Emma Larkins, was talking about reading called from Chaos to Creativity. 

[00:14:05] Connor Wake: Here’s the general idea of how you should probably have buckets . You can call those buckets, whatever you want. I got a bunch of sleep issues and so I’m tired all the time, so I don’t necessarily always have the energy to do playtesting, which involves talking to people and being very social.

[00:14:19] Connor Wake: So I bucketed them based on types of energy required which is how mine came out. Which is basically like my noodle on things is one bucket cuz I can just do that lying on the couch. Then there’s the, like I got, I’m gonna put something on the table and think about this in a more focused, concrete way, but I’m still doing it by myself.

[00:14:38] Connor Wake: Then there’s the I wanna do game design stuff, but I don’t wanna think about it. That’s my prototype step. I know I need to make cards with numbers on them and symbols. I don’t have to think, I just have to do the thing and I get to do some crafts. So that’s that kind of energy bucket, right? Put on a podcast and just make some cards.

[00:14:54] Connor Wake: And then there’s the social part of let me play just this. And then there’s the like back burner part where it’s let me just put this in the back of my head for a while and not think about it. That’s my like telling myself, do not think about this for a while. Cause it’s too annoying right now.

[00:15:08] Connor Wake: And then it goes back to the front or it bounces it back and forth. So that’s how I’ve bucketed it. And I and that’s the one I told you cuz I think the buckets work outside of my thing. But it is easy cuz then you can be like, These are my play test support games. I’ve got five of them.

[00:15:24] Connor Wake: Cool. Play test lights coming up. Put those five games in my bag. 

[00:15:27] Michael Schofield: The way you’ve organized that, like really lends itself to having multiple projects at a time. So you can just pick it up and then do you have, are you deeply are you generally like deeply concerned about.

[00:15:38] Michael Schofield: A specific project reaching a finish line before another one. . 

[00:15:42] Connor Wake: Yeah, so I think this was my other aha moment. For the longest time when I was working on number via, people were like you gotta work in other games. It’s if you really want to develop a game designer, you should probably work in other games.

[00:15:56] Connor Wake: This isn’t to say you must work in other games. If you have your one game that you care about, go for it. Do it. Yeah, but if you do want to like, make more games, working on one of them at a time is like a recipe for failure in my opinion. Mostly because it’ll take so long for the learnings of one game to catch up to the next.

[00:16:13] Connor Wake: And also you’ll burn yourself out.

[00:16:15] Tim Broadwater: Do you keep a healthy number in the churn? I’m always kinda working on three or four. 

[00:16:19] Connor Wake: 1, 2, 3, 4. I got 10 right now.

[00:16:26] Tim Broadwater: I have, I gotta go pitch some games. I’ll just get out the old game backpack and oh, these, I have tend choose them. I’ll just, oh 

[00:16:33] Connor Wake: this, I think this is, it’s worked nicely for me cuz I, they’re all at different stages, right? Some of them are like very early ideas and. Learnings from one game can bounce into the next.

[00:16:42] Connor Wake: And if I don’t want to think about one game, I can keep doing game. Cuz I love game design, but I don’t necessarily love working on that one game, on that one small problem that it’s stuck on. But I still wanna do game design Yeah, so that’s helped me a lot. I’ve never, 

[00:16:58] Tim Broadwater: I love it. No it’s super helpful and it clicks. Once you did it, it’s holy shit, I’ve been doing this in software for years.

[00:17:04] Tim Broadwater: Why didn’t I think about this in any process? I think it’s one of those things now I actually know, like someone who I work with who her and her husband have a retro at the end of the year, Uhhuh. And what they do in this retro is specifically like, how did we take vacations together?

[00:17:23] Tim Broadwater: Did we do enough things together? Alone? Did we do enough new things? Were there, what were the troubles of the year? And like they really Kanban to some degree, not their relationship, and just do that kind of thing. And it’s It’s very interesting.

[00:17:37] Tim Broadwater: What’s going on now with you? Are you just always, if it’s a side hustle, you’re just always working on games and then just always pitching them and 

[00:17:43] Connor Wake: Yeah. Pitching is one of those categories in the board that is the most energy.

[00:17:49] Connor Wake: I’ve got a game that is with a publisher that should be getting announced sometime this year. Part of me is I’m tired and don’t have the energy, so maybe I’ll just wait for that one to come out. Hope it does well, and maybe that’ll be my little boost. But in the meantime, yeah, I’ve got five games that I think are like done.

[00:18:06] Connor Wake: So I’m casually pitching those around. You asked earlier about are people still doing online pitches and stuff? It’s mostly, I think a lot of it seems to have gone back to the best way to talk to people is in person, which is frustrating cause I don’t like I’ve got the money to do it, but do I want to drop a thousand plus dollars on flying to the coast to maybe get them to maybe look at it?

[00:18:31] Connor Wake: It’s nice actually having a library of this many games. I have a website that I post them all on, so whenever I do send a game to someone, I can be like, here’s my game.

[00:18:40] Connor Wake: And then they’ll be like I’m not interested in that one. And then they click on the homepage and look at all the projects and they’re like, oh, but this one looks cool. So that’s actually the great thing about not rushing it, is I can just build up a library of games and then I can shop them all around at the same time.

[00:18:56] Connor Wake: What publishers want changes constantly, right? You might go to a year game publisher and they’re like, actually we’re getting into party games now. And this party games will come out in two years time cuz that’s our release schedule. So yeah, having just a bunch on hand is helpful.

[00:19:09] Connor Wake: So that’s, so I’m sitting 

[00:19:10] Tim Broadwater: here talking about Conner wake.com, your site. On the homepage you have a bunch of images, a square grid of all the games. Some have a parenthetical published after them, some have a parenthetical signed , and then the other ones are not.

[00:19:24] Tim Broadwater: So my assumption there is that. When you’re pitching games, you can just refer to the other ones. Published is of course, published. What signed. 

[00:19:33] Connor Wake: Signed is publisher has signed the game and is intending to publish it. So they’re currently just working on it in the background. So I, I put that there just so that no one asks me about it.

[00:19:43] Connor Wake: I don’t have nice cover art to put out there yet. Yeah. But I’m not 

[00:19:47] Tim Broadwater: pitching. So the final skinning, I guess this is something I’m very curious about with publishing. So you mentioned something earlier, which is oh, you don’t, you can have clip art and you can just have it, the elevator pitch and all the assets ready, but.

[00:19:59] Tim Broadwater: How much does it get changed between that and the publishing? Can they scan it however they want and it’s Hey, hedge ma, we’re actually gonna make it cog made, here’s something else who change it. And can they just, yeah I’m just wondering how much happens there variances artistically and 

[00:20:14] Connor Wake: company-wise, it will a hundred percent depend on the publisher.

[00:20:17] Connor Wake: Pan ASARs took the game did their whole thing, and then I found out about it mostly later. They didn’t fully re-skin it. I did some tweaks and added flowers. Mine was much more spooky ritual. They made it spooky flower ritual. Hedge Ma, which is working on with publisher they are they’re keeping the theme cuz it’s it’s mostly an abstract game, but it’s also pretty tied to the theme.

[00:20:40] Connor Wake: I dunno how you would do it other than It’s a maze and magic maze, it makes the most sense because these hedges are popping out of the ground. So they’re keeping it, but they actually are doing a bunch of like game design mechanic tweaks. Cuz for example, I had a scoring system that was.

[00:20:56] Connor Wake: Called gnomes, which is basically the amount of chaos in your garden. The more nos there are, the more chaotic it is. You don’t want lots of chaotic nos in your garden. But it was just a point system. This publish has turned it into nos that are on the board running around. And made it into a real part of the game.

[00:21:13] Connor Wake: So it depends on the publisher and like what the game needs. They’ll usually work with you, like for hedge manage. They’ve been keeping me in the loop the whole time and I’ve been doing play tests 

[00:21:21] Tim Broadwater: So what’s there? It’s your videos and your, I think sell sheets, which are your sell sheets, are great. And of what you’ve presented to them and then they can go from there. Is that 

[00:21:31] Connor Wake: correct?

[00:21:33] Connor Wake: Yeah so the stuff on the website is first look, they’ll, if that’s interesting, they’ll ask to either play a digital version or get a copy shipped to them. And then from there they’ll play it a bunch, play it with their team, play it with their friends, other people, et cetera. Like they want a hedge made too.

[00:21:49] Connor Wake: They’ve got some like retailer friends, so they play it with them to see would this work in the retail market in your store? And then if they like that, Then they will maybe sign it or they might be like, I don’t think it’s quite there yet. You might need to make some changes, et cetera. But for hedge manage, they were just like, no, this is, they played it a few times, played it with people, and then signed it.

[00:22:12] Connor Wake: May I 

[00:22:12] Tim Broadwater: ask your criteria for like, when do you feel like, okay, I can make a video for this and I can put a sell sheet up on the website now 

[00:22:19] Connor Wake: Originally I thought you had to do everything perfect. Do a hundred unguided play tests play test it 500 times. I think that’s true if you’re self publishing, but for pitching to a publisher Mike. Cutoff criteria is basically am I confident that this is the core of the game?

[00:22:39] Connor Wake: If I’m like, oh, I don’t think the numbers are quite balanced, and we might need to tweak stuff. I don’t care about that stuff anymore. That’s the publisher’s job because and if it ever comes down to I could make the game more complicated, or I could make the goals a little bit easier.

[00:22:53] Connor Wake: That’s also the publisher’s job. As soon as it comes to those like audience questions I know my main audience of the main type of game, but as soon as it comes to the very picky audience questions and the very picky product questions, that’s when I stop. Cause I’ll spend a bunch of time making all of the goals super complicated and they’ll be like, we don’t like this goal system.

[00:23:12] Connor Wake: We love everything else. And they scrap it, right? So it’s as long as the gist is in there and more than the gist, as long as like you can see the game and the framework and it’s functional and it’s enjoyable, fun, whatever. As long as all that works, people are like, oh, I think you should tweak some things.

[00:23:28] Connor Wake: Then I’m like, ok, we can pitch it now. That 

[00:23:30] Tim Broadwater: makes sense. Okay. Yeah, the core of the play, the feel, the strategy ball, and it’s just this is the game basically. Now, if you wanna skin it with cowboys or like plants or zombies, whatever, it’s, the core is this is how it’s gonna 

[00:23:43] Connor Wake: play.

[00:23:44] Connor Wake: So I do develop it, like I do make sure it’s all, most of the edges are rounded off. I just don’t explore too much past that. Cause yeah, it’s just a waste of time and I’m working on too many things and I’m already not getting paid for this. So not paid for this until it gets signed and then it comes out three years later and then it maybe does well, 

[00:24:07] Connor Wake: so yeah, this, but this is just for signing it with publishers. If I was gonna self-publish it, I’d a hundred percent do way more work. I’d. Be a second pair of eyes and all that sort of stuff yeah. 

[00:24:18] Tim Broadwater: How do people get connected with you? How do they find out more about your games? 

[00:24:22] Connor Wake: I’m am on Twitter as long as Twitter lasts @ConnorJWake. I’m not the best at social media stuff, so like I know everyone’s moving, but I’m.

[00:24:39] Connor Wake: On Discord you’ll find me in the break my game discord, same thing. I’m Connor Wake and stuff like that. But if you wanna like actually get in contact with me at Connor J, which is probably the easiest way to do it. Otherwise, yeah, connorwake.com has the games. Yeah, that’s it.

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