Things discussed in this episode:
- 3:05 Elden Ring as GOTY Nominee
- 4:06 Resident Evil Village
- 9:00 It Takes Two
- 12:48 Mad Max
- 13:18 God Of War
- 15:27 Stray
- 17:32 Simon’s Quest
- 17:51 Dying Light
- 21:46 Breath of the Wild
Introductory Guy
Welcome to design thinking games, a gaming and User Experience podcast, card carrying UXers. Tim Broadwater and Michael Scofield examine the player experience of board games, pen-and-paper role-playing games, live-action games and video games. Play through the backlog on your podcatcher of choice and on the web, at designthinkinggames.com.
Please note: this transcript is generated from our audio. You may find the AI tripping over itself every so often. We appreciate that you’re cool with this.
Tim Broadwater
Design thinking is a process that is used to understand users can which assumptions redefine problems and create innovative solutions. In this podcast, we apply design thinking to gaming.
Michael Schofield
Welcome everybody to this penultimate episode of the design thinking games podcast, season two extraordinaire. Here’s the deal, Tim, and I don’t really have a topic for this one. We have a list of topics and none of them are really sparking joy. The goal and trying to keep things fresh for you all becomes like a creative chore. We don’t know what we’re going to say in this episode.
Tim Broadwater
We did put up like the game of the year thing and we put a poll up. I don’t know if you remember. I haven’t looked at the results yet. Yeah, have people actually answered it. Everyone said 50% of the people said Stray 33% said Elden Ring and 16% said The Quarry.
Michael Schofield
That might have been me. So this was actually something that was on Twitter. Today at the time of the recording where I pinged you on it. The Elden Ring fan base seems to be resigning themselves, that they are going to get quote, robbed of game of the year. You know, during the year voting only prescribes a fraction of player choice or AGIS audience choice to the actual weight of the awards. And we discuss kind of that, you know, stray is cross platform. Elden ring is cross platform and was audience choice given more than 25% or so of the vote. Any of these cross platform games would totally win. But it looks like the Elden ring, Twitter community is starting to just assume that they’re not going to win. I think they’re gonna win like some categories.
Tim Broadwater
I felt like this is like the same thing as last year when a lot of people were like, Resident Evil village got robbed, you know, yeah, and one game of the year actually a very phenomenal game, which was two of us. It takes two, which I love it. And if no one’s played that game, it’s great. And I’ve played the Resident Evil Village and I’m just like, alright, is it bringing anything new? No, not really. So I loved this choice. But I actually know that tons of people were like Resident Evil felt like you know, when the best game of the year and it’s robbed. And I feel that’s Elden that’s exactly what you’re picking up on on social media.
Michael Schofield
So I made a statement. I think it’s true. About Elden ring, which is look, Elton ring, executed on the following things extremely well. Size of the open world. No doubt in terms of scale. It’s probably without parallel. I don’t know how to phrase this the size or the scale of the community impact. There were weeks where like, there’s nothing on like tick tock live or twitch or whatever. That wasn’t Elden ring. And because Eldon ring had such customizability and had all these episodes difficult. It became a real conversation piece and especially for a Souls game. The story written by George railroad, Martin is good. But it’s buried. It’s not in your face. It’s kind of like straight you got to find it. You got to dig for it. But I said about all the ring was like, yes, it executed on things very well. was a revolutionary. Did it change the landscape of video games? And
Tim Broadwater
you don’t want to hear my opinion here?
Michael Schofield
No, I don’t think so. I actually don’t know how much like a revolutionary metric plays for like Game of the Year, but I think it’s part of it. I think the one that won last year had some revolutionary aspects to it, right? Maybe revolutionising the landscape isn’t even an important piece anymore.
Tim Broadwater
I disagree 100% with what you said actually 200% with what you just said
Michael Schofield
about about Elden ring or about like
Tim Broadwater
revolutionising and I didn’t know this episode was gonna turn into a hate speech ring but let me let me bring the hate
Michael Schofield
episode 30 African with number one I’m fuck you out.
Tim Broadwater
Exactly. So the funny thing to me is this, okay, so everyone loves and has a total hardon for high fantasy, right? Sure I get it I do Tolkien completely. All Scandinavian Irish, you know kind of Scottish mythology turned it into his own kind of thing. And that has actually become what high fantasy is referred to. So with Dungeons and Dragons with elves and dwarves and castles and knights and magic, not that we didn’t have castles and knights, you know, but that is a genre that comes specifically from Tolkien. And so if we can agree to that, not that there aren’t other contributors, but mostly to that, then flash forward, how many years to today? high fantasy has persisted for 67 years, Dungeons and Dragons else, I am one of those people who is kind of done with high fantasy, and I don’t care if it’s Skyrim. And I don’t care if it’s fifth edition, or I don’t care if it’s Elden ring, and yeah, the mythology can be whatever you want. I don’t give a crap about the mythology. But I mean, in the end, it’s like there are these races and there are religious plays, theocracies and then castles and then fantasy creatures and there’s a great evil and like armies and political alliances and what we see today is this popularity persist with the Game of Thrones spin off of the Rings of Power Within so and it’s just people like that genre. And I’m like, That’s great. I’m glad for you. However, when I see a horror movie summer camp, kind of game that is like the quarry or I see a sci fi Future Space Cat game, I’m just seeing something different. There is something to be said I think about original concoctions. Nothing is new. I mean, we kind of know that. But combining things out chemically to like what is an original concoction like playing as a cat in a future robot society sci fi satire, you know what I mean? That’s kind of neat. You know, and when I think of the game of the year last year, Resident Evil Okay, so we have a yet another horror game that takes place in like a Castlevania style town and there’s these giant women who are vampires and dead and Okay, so maybe it’s not umbrella Resident Evil, but it’s still like, okay, whore gothic horror in a small like, Whatever town, I don’t feel anything new there, I guess. And so even if it’s a mash up, which is putting a different spin on an old tale, or just a different perspective of it, that’s kind of what I’m attracted to. And it takes to really used all of these paradigms and the history of two player games, Street Fighter, battle tank, stuff like that, and then wove that into a game about a mother and father trying to collaborate to save their daughter, you know what I mean? So it forced you to have two players, that was a revolutionary aspect of it, they’re really adding something new to like, the cooperative multiplayer landscape in a way that like others didn’t last year. Yeah. And I I love the fact that like, if you don’t have two players, you’re not playing this game.
Michael Schofield
I’m still stuck on the fact that you declare that Tolkien rape Scandinavia.
Tim Broadwater
Well, I mean, you know.
Michael Schofield
I wonder if Game of the Year is going to come down to like the narrative, right? Like, if if this year is not defined by new mechanics, or like a changing landscape, then it will be defined by how many pre existing things were taken to the next level. And so when I look at like, like clips, or people playing like horizon, like I, I see like an expertly crafted narrative experience in the same way that is true for you know, God of War, I think stray falls and falls into that category for me like was a very good game that had that told a story and they’re like, really interesting way. I wonder how much of a factor that becomes?
Tim Broadwater
There is something to be said about perfection, right and not to share not to quote that evil character from Harry Potter like Dolores Umbridge but Ricky’s like let’s let’s not focus on this let’s let’s refine what can be refined you know, or I’m killing the quote but whatever she said where she is like let’s not worry about learning new stuff let’s improve and perfect what we do know and and, and so there is something to be said. What I gather from Eldon rings is okay, so it’s a different mythology, high fantasy single player open world, right. But if they really made the combat and the interaction and the stories and the mechanics Fantastic and that’s why people love the game fan I think that’s legitimate you know that has something to say. Did you ever play Mad Max? No and that had great reviews the it was domino it was like what am I favorite open world games of all time maybe more than ghosts issue SIBO or horizon to where it literally was dystopian future it’s all desert and you are just you have a car but you can you’re like scrapping and like building equipment based out of things you find and you know, helping communities by like helping them survive you know, so you’ve kind of our hero but but yeah, like I should probably pay play god of war Red Dead Redemption is on my list because I’ve never I know that people love it and, and it’s won awards,
Michael Schofield
the quality of the open world really depends for me on the ability to get lost in it. So like Red Dead Redemption, two are and in one, they all feel real. Like what’s a testament to Rockstar here? One of the things that they do well is that like the character you inhabit and like Red Dead Redemption to where you’re playing Arthur, you can go crazy evil and go on a murdering spree you can be super good and saintly, you know, and it truly is an open world much more so than any massive Act which is definitely on rails, you know, nothing you do is really dramatically out of character for that still single player narrative. So it’s really interesting because you know, no matter which direction you take it is still feels broadly, like Arthur and I think that’s kind of like
Tim Broadwater
amazing what I dislike about games that quote unquote appear to be open world is The Last of Us and The Last of Us two, there’s a story that you follow that is very linear and it dumps you into a locked map and you can’t get out of that map until you do X things talk to x people or go about it but in Red Dead Redemption 100 rings, ghosts of Tsushima Mad Max, Grand Theft Auto I mean you can explore anywhere from day one, like you can go anywhere do kind of anything and so that is I think what people like about openworld is like I don’t want to follow a story or timeline Yeah, I can always go back into the main class and I can help this person over here or I can do this side quest and unlock items or cars or weapons or whatever, but I don’t have to I can just get lost in the game and I think that when you said that that’s really what defines the beauty of open world despite whatever genre it is or mashup of genres right? Yeah. I like stray don’t get me wrong, I think stray is great and unique. But it is very much like The Last of Us or the last that was to to where you are locked in the certain maps and you have to do X things or talk to x people before you can get to the next map and that just is not Elden rings that is not most MMO RPG that is not you know Red Dead Redemption or go Saatchi Sima. You can go to like the level 100 bosses on day one, you know and thinking you’re gonna get destroyed you know, but there is that thing to where unlocking the map finding what’s behind the hill and like looking like Oh, where does this bird take me? Oh, it takes me to a shrine or this is a weird waterfall or a river that I never would have encountered before. And then if I step behind that waterfall, it’s like oh my god, there’s a cave. You know, that kind of mystery and intrigue that is kind of that open world kind of exploring. I think it’s that feel of the original like Legend of Zelda. It’s just like it’s open go where you want think what you can do like your weapon will only do X things but you’ll kind of learn Oh, there’s more to this world than meets the eye and there’s people you can talk to and things you can do and it’s definitely for the people who I have mad respect for open world games that are truly open world
Tim Broadwater
I’m pressed really hard to find an open world horror arcade. I think like old school back to like Simon’s Quest like Castlevania to to where it’s like dude, you can go to the last boss or do all this stuff and you don’t know it until you experience it. But like an open world horror game. That’s something I want to play. You know,
Michael Schofield
I would recommend to you it’s hard for it’s I’m hard pressed to say this is open world. I mean, I guess it is, like Dying Light. I would recommend that highly.
Tim Broadwater
I feel like dying light.
Michael Schofield
Yeah, the idea. Did you ever play Mirror’s Edge? This kind of like an open world zombie game? Right? Die is a first person parkour zombie game. And the city is actually pretty broad and you’re kind of a badass you never run out of stamina? Not really. And you can sprint and balance and whatever. And the zombies are all around you. There’s different flavors. Of course, you have the zombies who can like run very fast and stalk around at night. This might be up your alley, though the narrative is good. The gameplay is delightful.
Tim Broadwater
And is there a sequel to it? Like is there more than was two,
Michael Schofield
I would recommend playing the I’d recommend playing them in order Dying Light holds up, it’s been getting constant updates. And it’s one of those games where it’s it’s pretty delightful. And the multiplayer I’m just saying if you pick it up is pretty fun. Because you have like two parkour people like running together. But the zombies that chase you are pretty spooky.
Tim Broadwater
So I sound so persnickety, because it’s like, I’m like, I’m the person who bailed on Walking Dead. And I’m just like, I’m not a zombie person. I know, there are I know, it’s a genre of horror that people love. They love zombie films. And so but no, I will truly add Dying Light to the list. Because I am looking for an open world, like horror, evil within one was very much map locked. It’s like yeah, like a silent hit Last of Us or stray. It’s like here, and now you’re at this area. And then once you get out of that area, you can’t really return to the previous area, you know, you’re just kind of forced to do this kind of map sequence. And so that kind of also aligns with the story, right, but the evil within to from moment one, it’s like, this is the world you can go anywhere in it over here is maybe zombies, but here is like a poltergeist er is a ghost, or here’s a serial killer. And so it’s like, you can kind of just encounter it all, you know, at whatever pace you want to encounter it. Here’s like a crazy cold over in this corner. So it’s like truly like a lot of that kind of stuff. And I just I will try Dying Light, even though it’s zombie based because I like I as you know, like, probably from all years of podcasting or whatever, but I love openworld games, but it has to be something cool or unique to hook me.
Michael Schofield
And so the spin I think the mechanics and the narrative might like it’s still zombies are still surrounded by zombies. But But it’s, you know, you’re not in a mall, surrounded by a horde, you know, you are moving really fast and gracefully. And it’s one of those things like in Mirror’s Edge that if you can master the mechanics, you are like kind of like dancing around these zombies. And it’s an incred incredibly brutal
Tim Broadwater
you know, I’m kind of looking at the the games that are coming out that are there is let me give the name of it. There is the black myth. Whoo con game. I don’t know if you’ve seen that one. I don’t know. I can’t tell if it’s open world or not. It looks cool. It looks like it could be open world but it may not be right. And then I actually tried a couple games that were more ninja samurai kind of in nature. And then when I find out they’re not open world that I can’t move around like goes to to SEMA or something then I’m just like, Oh, my map locked I lose interest. And that’s just me because now I played through and loved Last of Us unless it was to as well as stray and other games that are mapped blocked, but I truly just like Dude, if I want to just wander around and fish or just to go follow streams or just climb a mountain, I want to be able to do that. And that I believe is really why Breath of the Wild. The first 3d open world Zelda game that came out every Zelda game before that was kind of open world. And then some of it wasn’t it was map locked. But Breath of the Wild was truly like, here’s high roll. It’s all open. Enjoy. That’s why people loved it because it needed to be that open world feel that one and two was and Windwaker was winwaker. I’m not sure if you’ve ever played it. It’s the one that’s all Hashem. People love that game, because you can just sell anywhere you know. And Zelda has always been kind of synonymous with open world. But then it got away from it like on a couple of things like Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess and some of the other ones. And then they kind of went back to open world and which was a smart move,
Michael Schofield
I think. Well, if you want to get Matt blocks to design thinking games, you can find us on all of our social medias. We’re on the three T’s tick tock twitch and Twitter. Like for Design Thinking games there. If you want to support the work we do, including work we haven’t ever talked about yet. It may not come my god. Oh my god, you can go to patreon.com/design thinking games where we post ad free episodes and we would love your money. We also have have excellent hosts read advertisements. Perhaps you heard one of these on our public feed. And if you would like for you want to reach our hordes of listeners, hop on over to design thinking games.com/advertise And we will totally hook you up.
Introductory Guy
Thank you for listening to the Design Thinking games podcast. You only have so much time and it means a lot you shared it with us to connect with your hosts Michael or Tim. Visit Design Thinking games on tick tock twitch and Twitter DMS are open. You can also check out design thinking games.com where you can request topics, ask questions or see what else is going on. Until next time, game on.
